It seems that Christians don’t want to believe that there is atheist bigotry in America. That’s an odd position to take, since at present, there is ONE openly atheist congressman. (Stark, from California.) If there was only one black congressman, would we not immediately jump on the bandwagon and call for an end to racial discrimination? (Non-believers outnumber blacks, by the way.)
Ask yourself this question: If you were to hear the statement: “Blacks should be treated like trolls,” would you say that was bigotry?
“Making fun of them and mocking them”? Would that be ok if we were talking about Jews?
Here’s a great article by one of my favorite bloggers, Greta Christina, on the topic of anti-atheist sentiment in America. It discusses the hate campaign by Elizabeth Dole (Yes, THAT Elizabeth Dole) against an opponent who accepted money from a group of atheists. Read this excerpt, where Greta has substituted “Jew” for “Atheist” in the ad.
From the flyer:
“Liberal Kay Hagan flew to Boston to pocket campaign cash from leaders of the Jewish American PAC.”
“Jewish Americans Political Action Committee is a left-wing organization based in Washington, DC — dedicated to ‘Mobilizing America’s Jews for Political Activism.'”
“They actively support political candidates who are Jews.”
“And they want Kay Hagan in the U.S. Senate.”
“We can’t trust Kay Hagan to defend our North Carolina values.”
From the video:
“Kay Hagan attended a Massachusetts fundraiser hosted by a leader of the JEWISH AMERICANS PAC.”
“DaylightJudaism.org: ‘Kay Hagan out to be rewarded for inviting Jews onto her platform.'”
“And what’s THEIR platform?”
“And what does Kay Hagan have to say? ‘North Carolina deserves leadership that advocates on behalf of North Carolinians, every day, every week, every month, and every year.’ Apparently except when Jewish donors in Massachusetts invite you over.”
If there were a campaign flyer or video saying that? The candidate would be excoriated by the mainstream media, up one side and down the other. They’d either be distancing themselves from the people who made it so fast it would make your head spin… or they’d be resigning in disgrace. A resignation called upon, not only by every major news organization in the country, but by their own party. And rightly so.
But apparently, not so much with the atheists.
I think if you stop and think about some of the things you might have heard in church about atheists, you might be appalled if you substitute the name of a group it’s not ok to hate.
From a landmark study at the University of Minnesota in 2006:
Asked whether they would disapprove of a child’s wish to marry an atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively.
When asked which groups did not share their vision of American society, 39.5 percent of those interviewed mentioned atheists. Asked the same question about Muslims and homosexuals, the figures dropped to a slightly less depressing 26.3 percent and 22.6 percent, respectively. For Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans and African-Americans, they fell further to 7.6 percent, 7.4 percent, 7.0 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively.
The study contains other results, but these are sufficient to
underline its gist: Atheists are seen by many Americans (especially conservative Christians) as alien and are, in the words of sociologist Penny Edgell, the study’s lead researcher, “a glaring exception to the rule of increasing tolerance over the last 30 years.”
Harsh words, to be sure. Are you a Christian, and do you think you don’t discriminate against atheists? Let me ask you some questions:
- How many of your friends are openly atheist?
- Would you be happy if your child dated an atheist?
- Do you believe atheists could do a good job in Congress?
- Do you believe atheists are just as moral as you are?
- Do you think atheists are just as smart as you are?
Now… before you go on, re-read all of these questions and substitute the word “Black” for “atheist.” If you find that your answers change, ask yourself if perhaps you aren’t more bigoted towards atheists than blacks.
And before you justify your answers with theology, take yourself out of your own shoes for a minute. I’m not asking you to make a decision about whether or not we’re right or you’re right. I’m asking you a very simple, one-dimensional question. Are you bigoted towards atheists? The reasons are not important just yet. Just a yes or no answer.
If you have to admit that you are bigoted, try to put yourself in our shoes for a minute. Do you think we care that you believe you have good reasons for your bigotry? Do you think blacks cared that whites thought they were “inferior” biologically? Do you think women cared that men thought they weren’t capable of understanding politics well enough to vote intelligently?
If you’re tired of us yelling about how awful you are towards us, it might be a good first step to carefully examine your own house and see if there isn’t something to what we’re saying.
Don’t you think?
Life Without a Net 
Just a question Hamby.
Do you find any of this morally objectionable? If so, why?
Posted by Nick | October 19, 2010, 8:11 pmBill…..hey it’s “Tom,” your friend from last Friday at the conference. I got your email address from Lara and sent you a quick email just to say hi. Sorry I’m posting this on here, I just wanted to make sure you checked your email. I’m assuming you don’t post it on here for a reason, so I won’t say which account to check. Check them all! haha.
I hope you’re doing well friend. I admired your ability to devour such a huge plate of seafood in one sitting. Write me back!!!
Oh…I’ll answer your questions from above, ok?
* How many of your friends are openly atheist?
Well…you are number one my friend! I just honestly don’t know that many people who are openly atheist. I also don’t know anyone who’s Hindu. I know many Muslims though. So I know all kinds of people and don’t discriminate against being friends with any of them. If you introduce me to more of your friends, I will gladly be friends with them. I will come to any conference or gathering you invite me to.
* Would you be happy if your child dated an atheist?
It’s totally up to my child! I don’t have one though, so it’s unfair to speak from ignorance.
* Do you believe atheists could do a good job in Congress?
Sure! You’re really smart, so I know one for sure. Some “Christians” do an awful job. I’m a follower of Jesus though, Christianity ends up being very religious and silly sometimes.
* Do you believe atheists are just as moral as you are?
Well, it depends on what standard of morals you’re using. I’m not going to get into that….some are more moral than me. I’m a hypocrite many times and live inconsistently with what I believe. Sigh.
* Do you think atheists are just as smart as you are?
Ummm…YES! I was a computer science/math major in college and there were atheists in my classes. Some of them proceeded to crush me on final exams.
Also, if you’d ever like to have me come hang out with you and your friends, you’re welcome to tell me or ask me anything else you like. Hope to hear from you soon.
-“Tom”
P.S. Does everyone that reads this know about your leather jacket?
Posted by Tom Your Friend From Friday | October 19, 2010, 8:15 pmNick, that’s a great question. I’m into the social part of my day, so I don’t have time to answer, but if you haven’t seen a post on this topic in a few days, remind me and I’ll answer it.
Posted by hambydammit | October 19, 2010, 9:16 pmI wonder what would happen if you replaced atheist with Christian and asked atheists them?
Anywho, I think we atheists need a public figure that breaks away from the schemas of atheists, and that more atheists should come out of the closet [study after study has shown that the contact hypothesis reduces prejudice,]
Posted by cptpineapple | October 19, 2010, 11:01 pmOh another way to reduce prejudice is to make the two groups cooperate. [I assume you’ve heard about the robbers cave experiment?]
So I we can set up groups or organizations that, rather than promote one [either atheism or Christianity], encourage cooroperation such as I don’t know summer camps where Christian and atheist children work together to build legos or something.
Posted by cptpineapple | October 19, 2010, 11:22 pmI can understand why some atheists object to the public nativity scenes–it’s not like Hanakkah, as the majority of the country are Christians and an alarming number of them seem to want to ram their beliefs down everyone’s throat–but I think they’re reacting to the emotive provocation of the fundamentalists with their own emotive provocation. And when we fight stupidity with stupidity, we lose.
Posted by Ian | October 20, 2010, 6:03 amAnd there’s the catch-22. Atheists, like theists, are just human. I don’t know if it’s too much to expect from non-believers to just happily step out into society without some backlash. As I told David, I think theists may have to lie in the bed they’ve made for a while. We’ve suffered three quarters of a century of open bigotry, and we’re the last group that it’s ok to be openly bigoted against.
Ian, if you can think of a group that endured bigotry and managed to become accepted without a fight, let me know. I can’t think of any.
Posted by hambydammit | October 20, 2010, 1:18 pmI would argue that if it had been left to the Black Panthers to secure civil rights for black people, then they would still be waiting.
It wasn’t a fight in the sense of an emotional, revenge-seeking struggle, however justified that that would have been, considering the circumstances. The fight that won the battle was the one civil rights leaders like MLK fought. Likewise for India–Ghandi didn’t go around posting snarky little signs protesting British holidays.
The thing that wins is to stand up for your rights and make the other side see that you’re human. Posting those signs about how religion “hardens hearts and enslaves minds” does nothing but provoke people.
I mean, honestly. Why should anyone believe a statement like that? On what authority is it true that religion hardens hearts?
If we want to get the message across we need to explain the message, show why it’s right. This is just throwing exposition at people and ridiculously expecting them to take it to heart.
And they’re not even looking for an argument between religion and atheism! They’re just passing by, enjoying the holiday cheer, and here’s this jarring, angry-sounding placard telling them that they’re hard-hearted mind-slaves.
These signs have nothing to do with sticking up for our rights. They’re either an impotent attempt to convert people to our world view, or trollish provocation.
You are right that atheists are just human, but should I refrain from criticizing stupidity in an atheist, just because he’s an atheist?
Anyway, what we need to do is think of something positive to place beside nativity scenes. I can’t really think of anything off the top of my head, though; maybe an australophithecine in a Santa Claus hat.
Posted by Ian | October 20, 2010, 4:37 pmNot at all. Open dialog is where it’s at, my friend. When I say that atheists may be angry for a while, I’m not justifying this as the best possibility. I’m suggesting that it might be something of an inevitability. After all… everybody’s human.
I do think that you’re over-simplifying things a bit, though. It might be that King’s diplomacy eventually won the day for civil rights, but I think it unlikely that he’d have even had the stage to stand on if a few early civil rights figures hadn’t taken the stage by force. (I mean that metaphorically.) If you think back to the history of suffrage, you see the same pattern. The first few suffragettes out of the gate were angry. Same for feminists.
To some degree, justified anger is a powerful political AND emotional tool. Don’t you feel angry when someone you care about is wronged? Once there’s any degree of empathy at all with an oppressed group, some righteous anger can go a long way to winning the hearts of the silent majority.
I tend to think that if there is such a thing as an “optimal” solution for ending discrimination and bigotry against atheists, it’s a multi-pronged approach, with some people pounding the podiums and stirring up anger and others appealing to reason, empathy, and our shared humanity. What’s the ideal mix? I dunno. But I do agree with you that regardless of what most atheists believe, there is certainly a public image that we’re a pretty angry lot.
I do wonder how much of this is just sensationalism. What if it’s just five percent of atheists, and FOX and Co have blown it so far out of proportion that it’s perceived as most or all of us? How can we possibly defeat that kind of propaganda? Are we really expected to somehow enforce total party line kindness? If we did that, wouldn’t we be just as dogmatic as the system we oppose?
It’s a tough set of questions, to be sure.
Posted by hambydammit | October 20, 2010, 5:21 pmReally good topic and comments. I agree that atheists need to be in the public discourse but I disagree with the use of snark during the holidays. Most people who walk by a nativity think nothing about it, or think of the artistic qualities along the lines of “oohh how pretty!” It does not reinforce their faith or beliefs, but it does reinforce the culture of Christianity. If atheists want to compete they need to express another culture, one of love and acceptance of all, with a little family, country, and apple pie included.
Posted by Fey Wyndom | October 21, 2010, 12:46 pmAnd there is the heart of the problem we atheists have been having. It’s twofold, actually. Or, maybe I should say it’s two sides of the same coin. On the first side, there’s the unfortunate fact of history: Virtually every holiday is religious in nature. It’s not because holidays must be religious. Instead, just about every holiday was invented before the scientific revolution, when religion was the primary lens through which people viewed their world.
On the other side of the coin is the fact that atheism doesn’t invent holidays, nor does it have any reason to do so. Atheism is nothing without theism. (If nobody had ever claimed there was a god, there’d be no reason for me to say “I don’t believe it.”) It is simply a reaction to the claims made by theists. Beyond that, it’s not anything at all. It’s not a philosophy or a cultural tradition, or a set of moral standards.
So we’re at something of an impasse. We certainly don’t want to invent “No God Day.” What would we celebrate? Why would we do it?
The fact is, if our existing holidays were redefined, or lost their religious significance, most of us would probably be perfectly happy to keep them. I know many non-believers who participate in all of the religious holidays, but put their own non-theist interpretation on them. Maybe that’s the best way to go.
Posted by hambydammit | October 21, 2010, 1:07 pm